Thoughts on a passage

[Justin]

Read Romans 14 (Concentrate on verses 4-8)

Discussion: I stumbled across this while I was looking up a different
verse, and think it is great because it displays a view that I think
it is critical for Christians to understand. Often on campus
(UW-Madison) the only public exposure people get to Christians is the man who stands on the corner telling everyone that they are going to Hell. I always hate this, because first of all that man knows nothing about who I am or what my relationship is with Jesus Christ. Second, he is portraying his set of values, or his checklist for getting into heaven, not God's. Any non-Christians who see this then, are turned away by the abrasive message and feeling that there is no way they would every meet this man's standard, much less God's so they don't even try.

Romans 14:4 asks, "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls." To me personally this seems as if God is calling us to a personal relationship with him. As we continue the passage there seems to be clues that Christianity is not so black and white, but rather a searching of your heart as to how you can truly live in union with God. Perhaps then this passage can be used in our (young Christians) defense when we are accused of not meeting up to the standards of the Christian that we exposed to through the media and seems to be the sterotype that sticks in peoples minds. Perhaps we are living up to God's standards instead?

Back to the man on the street corner, obviously Romans 14 does not give us a blank check so that we can just do whatever we want, and say that we think it is fine because "I have my own relationship with God." But, where do we draw the line?

Where is the happy medium? Can we all be Christians but live by
different standards? Is it possible to trick ourselves into thinking
a behavior we are doing is ok, when deep down we know God doesn't approve? Am I way off base on what this passage is saying? Any other comments?

[Response]

(Written by Becky Frey)

Hey all...

I wanted to respond to what Justin said about this part of Romans 14.....

I agree that God is calling us into a personal relationship with Him. He wants to know us and us to know Him in true relationship. I also think this passage is dealing with judgment, a very human trait that we must fight to overcome. God is telling us that Christianity is not so black and white. There is an in between, but I don't think it's that there are different standards for each person, but that each person is charged to live out a different life than every other person. God calls us to be in relationship with Him, but that doesn't mean that every person should have the exact same relationship with Him. Each child of God is called to live out their faith by their own talents. God has given us each different skills and talents to use in His name. Therefore, our standards are not different, but how we answer God's call will look different by the paths we take. Of course to other humans it may look like we are NOT living in relationship with God, but that is not for us to worry about. The man on the corner with his Bible tracts does not affect whether we please God or whether we sadden Him. Only we can change our relationship with God.

I also think this passage shows us that even if it looks like we are not being a good servant of God to the man on the corner or any other person, we don't have to worry about that either. We are not here to be servants of others the way they EXPECT to be served, or think they DESERVE to be served. We are here to serve God and He is the only one who we need to consider in our decisions. If we are walking with God, we will serve others in Him, but that doesn't mean every one else will see our actions the way God does. Even if we are serving God and His people, those who are not walking with God, may judge us, but they are looking at their own wants and needs, not those of God.

We also have to look at our inner struggles not to judge others like the man on the corner is doing to us. We may not understand the actions of our friends, or our enemies, but they are not meant to serve us. We do not own or have judgment over them. They are God's servants and whether humans are given the opportunity now to judge and punish them does not matter to God, because He will have final judgment in the end. Eventually we will all get that from God, so we don't need to put that judgment on each other. It does us no good and it does the person we are judging no good either.

Addressing one of Justin's questions about whether it's possible to trick ourselves into thinking what we are doing is walking with God, when in reality that is not the case....
I think it is not only possible, but happens quite often in our journeys. We want something so bad sometimes that we trick ourselves into thinking God wants it too. In these cases, we don't need judgment from those around us, but we do need concern and love. It's okay to point out to a friend when you are worried or concerned with their behavior. That is what true friendship and support are all about. It's the way we go about pointing out harmful actions, that determine whether we are being loving or judgmental. We need to remember "in all things love." That is especially true when trying to support our friends. We are not meant to judge others, but giving our love and support in a struggling friend is also an important part of walking in God's light.

Well, I think that's everything I had to add at this point. Not sure if I'm on the right track, or if my ramblings make sense, but please add your insights!

Walking in Christ with all of you,
Becky

[Response]

(Written by Elli Austin)

Hey everyone,

In reading this passage the first thing that came to mind was what Justin mentioned, the man on State Street. One day in the fall (when it was actually warm out), I saw this man (who, we should clarify, is a generalization of the "preachers" on State Street, it's not the same man every time) in argument with a student about homosexuality and masturbation. Now this argument was so perfectly staged out, and there was so much passion in each of their voices, I couldn't help but wonder if they were actually arguing, or if they were working together to put on a sort of impromptu drama to help get their point across. Well, turns out they were actually arguing. And while I'll admit that most of the things they said to each other made me laugh a little, I thought that they were both being completely ridiculous.

And it wasn't until just now that I realized I was judging them both.

I find now that, even though I didn't audibly call them out on their actions, what I did was almost worse. I simply told myself that I didn't need to listen to either of them, because my faith was better than theirs. After all, Romans 14 says it perfectly, who are THEY to judge other people? Then again, hadn't I just done the same?

Everyone is fighting their own battles, whether they show it, or it's unseen. And I agree with what Becky said, it's good of us to, not only as a friend, but as a brother or sister in Christ, to show concern for them when we feel concern for them. From what I understand of this passage, there's nothing wrong with that. But getting to the bottom of their situation? That's God's job, and He may or may not choose to use us to help Him.

What I love about this passage is that, from what I understand, God is essentially telling us that He's got it under control. Even when He seems as if He couldn't be farther away, He's more deeply knitted into the situation than any of us every could be. And the beauty of this is that we don't have to be God (Bruce Almighty anyone?), and for that we should rejoice! And while we can still be a friend, we must trust that God has it all under the reigns.

I want to close with a verse highlighted in my Bible from a long time ago that I stumbled upon while looking up Romans 14. It's a short passage out of 2 Corinthians chapter 12, which is titled Strength from Weakness; it says:

"My grace is enough; it's all you need. My strength comes into its own in your weakness."

I think that ties in well with this passage from Romans. His grace is enough. In fact, it's more than that.

In Christ,
Elli

[Response]

(Written by Paul Rahn)

In Romans fourteen, Paul is specifically speaking to strong Christians in the Roman church who've fallen into judging weaker Christians, fellow former Jews who've converted to Christianity who still follow things like the old Jewish dietary practices and observe Jewish holidays. But more generally, this passage deals with exactly the ideas that you bring up. The ideas of judging the actions of another Christian who does not understand the freedoms into which we've come.

This passage was specifically relevant to me while at Northwestern because of the lifestyle statement under which students are required to live (no smoking, drinking, et cetera). This issue was always a hot topic because it is possible for a Christian to smoke and drink without sinning, and members of the community knew this and wanted to be free to partake in things that they are free to, but at the same time, Romans fourteen says it is sinful to do these things if they are causing another to stumble.

I recently heard a preacher describe the idea of judging the servant of someone else like walking into a Target store, going into the personnel files, and commencing to do a work evaluation on one of the employees there. We have neither the right, nor the ability to do such a thing.

Which brings me to the man standing on the street corner proclaiming the destination of those who don't believe. While quite often not agreeing with the delivery of their message, I often have to appreciate their zeal for the kingdom (though often misplaced). My problem with these street preachers is often that they are preaching fear, not hope. While preaching the very real consequence of non-belief, they often completely forget the reason for the hope they have. The greatness of God and the hope that comes from calling Him Lord. Among our chief motives for preaching the kingdom of God should be the real desire to share the greatness of God, and a great desire that no one should perish away from the face of the Lord. Because "His desire is that none should perish, but that all should reach repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

And this brings me to another of your questions: Is it possible to trick ourselves into thinking
a behavior we are doing is ok, when deep down we know God doesn't approve? My answer is no. Notice the second half of 2 Peter 3:9: "but that all should reach repentance." We must realize that we do sin against God and God requires that "We are holy, as He is Holy." Obviously we can never attain His level of holiness, that's where Jesus comes in. But notice what Peter says in Acts 2:38, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Here is Peter again stressing repentance. (On a side note, the Greek word here is better translated 'keep on repenting')

So that brings me all the way back around to the original issue of judging someone else. To which I have two statements. The first is that if we see a brother (someone we are close enough to to speak the truth in love) in an activity we know to be sin, we must say something to them. The second is that as Paul says in Romans 14:12, "each of use will give an account of himself to God." While it is not the place of someone else to judge us, we must be actively pursuing God’s will in our own lives. And to know what it is that God requires of us, we must make an intentional effort to search His word and appeal to Him through prayer. There is no other way.

Paul